For the past week, I haven’t been able to shut up about Maintenance Phase, a podcast that decodes and debunks everything related to wellness and weight loss. The podcast, hosted by Michael Hobbes (You’re Wrong About) and Aubrey Gordon (Your Fat Friend, What We Don’t Talk About When We Talk About Fat), examines everything from anti-fat bias to Weight Watchers to Dr. Oz to diet pills, and I guarantee that every episode contains information you’ve never heard before. Here are some of the reasons you should check out Maintenance Phase. Get ready to learn, unlearn, and gasp out loud when you listen.

The hosts have great chemistry

Michael and Aubrey make a great team. They are both excellent researchers, and it’s genuinely delightful to hear one of them tell the other a wild fact they learned. Just download the “Snake Oil” episode to hear Aubrey’s utter excitement to teach Michael the weird (and racist) things she learned about snake oil. Michael’s reactions to her snake oil revelations are just as fun to hear. Michael is an expert de-bunker, and he has another podcast dedicated to doing just that, so check out You’re Wrong About after you listen to this podcast. Michael and Aubrey are also both very open and honest about their own experiences, and their show feels like a really safe space to explore difficult issues related to weight and dieting. To top it off, they’re both hilariously funny, which brings some much-needed levity to the subject matter. When you listen, you’ll feel like you’re in a conversation with two really smart friends that you wish you could jump into.

The info is truly mind-blowing

So I don’t want to spoil anything major, but I’ve gotta drop a few nuggets in here to show you the kinds of things you’ll hear about. Like how Weight Watchers used to be marketed to young teenagers. Or how that annoying President’s Physical Fitness test you did in high school literally measured nothing. Or how contestants on The Biggest Loser endured dangerous physical, mental, and verbal abuse. These are just little moments that barely scratch the surface of the truly wild things you will hear on Maintenance Phase.

It can re-frame how you think about bodies and body image

Besides the pieces of unexpected and shocking information, Maintenance Phase also offers a great way to re-frame how we think about and talk about bodies. We all know that body image issues exist across the spectrum of weight and body size, and while I’ve experienced body image issues as a thin person, this show (and Aubrey’s experiences in particular) have taught me so much about the intense and relentless bias and mistreatment that fat people endure every day. I’m now looking at everything from airplanes to restaurant seating through a new lens: that most physical spaces are designed to fit a minority of the population—thin people. They also share some great information on how to be an ally to fat people that I found really insightful and helpful. 

Maintenance Phase has also forced me to examine how to talk about my own body, and bodies in general. I’m sure every one of us has heard a friend lament the size of their waistline, or how they look in a swimsuit, or how they wish they could be smaller somehow. Almost all of us have probably said those same things ourselves. This podcast has done a lot to encourage me to un-learn those ways of talking about and thinking about my body by revealing how that kind of talk affects us. In the “Weight Watchers” episode, Aubrey tells listeners that people who engage in “fat talk” or other kinds of negative body talk experience real negative consequences in their social and personal lives (besides lowered self-esteem). For example, people who don’t talk about their bodies as much, or talk about them in a positive way, are more likely to have healthier relationships and more satisfying sex. 

I’ve also learned a lot about eating disorders and disordered eating behaviors that I never considered. For example, there are way more kinds of eating disorders than the two we hear about most, anorexia and bulimia. (Look up orthorexia and then think about how often you see the associated behaviors encouraged on Instagram.) I’ve unlearned to think of eating disorders as only occurring in very emaciated or sick-looking people; there is a high incidence of eating disorders in fat people, but those people are often refused treatment because they are not medically underweight. 

If you like scam stories, there’s some crossover material

You know the Book Squad loves to talk about scams and cults, and if you’re into those topics too, you’ll find the world of dieting and weight loss rich with swindlers and cult-leader-type figures. Basically every fad diet is a scam. Weight loss companies that make you pay money are definitely scams. The ways society tells fat people to lose weight are unrealistic and not even based in science or dietetics. It’s a scam to think that if you lose weight, you’ll suddenly be happy. Many social media accounts based around weight loss, fitness, etc. are also often scams because the photos are heavily edited and they encourage disordered eating behaviors. Some diet- and fitness-based groups definitely have cult-like red flags flying everywhere.

Check out Maintenance Phase, and let me know what you think!