Kelli: Hello and welcome to another late recap of Joey’s season of The Bachelor! We’ve reached HOMETOWNS, which is famously the most boring episode of every season. Today, in Emily’s stead, I am joined by Mary. Mary, how has this season been treating you? Who’s your pick for the win?

Mary: You know, I didn’t expect to like Joey as much as I do. He didn’t really leave an impression on me in Charity’s season, but now he’s a bit more charming. That said, there’s something off-putting to me about his Extreme Direct Eye Contact. And how he says “thank you for sharing” to everything anyone says.

I’ve been enjoying the season so far, but I’ve been a little irked at all the Maria drama. It’s really not that serious! My pick to win is probably Daisy, but Kelsey has made some strides recently too.

Kelli: We’re starting off this week strong in New Orleans with Kelsey, who is my pick to win. I am sad for Emily that she’s not here to share her many opinions about New Orleans, but Mary, you’re also a NOLA frequenter, so I am entrusting you with the job of authenticity correspondent.

Mary: Emily is, of course, the expert, but I’ve been a few times! All season it’s seemed like the girls want to do a run and jump on Joey but… he’s a little on the short side so the optics are weird. However, Kelsey GOES FOR IT and does a classic run and jump to greet Joey. Does she get points for this? How do points work? Lol

Kelli: Yes, she gets 5 points! We are no longer giving out simple kiss points because everyone is kissing by hometowns, but the r&j still counts.

I would also like to point out that Kelsey is wearing a very cute white jumpsuit.

Mary: The jumpsuit is very cute! I liked it.

The first part of this date is typical. They do some cute outdoor things, like riding a tandem bike (I have never seen a tandem bike in NOLA), getting beignets (no, there is no neat way to eat these, Joey), and just generally walking around and seeing the sights. During some parts when they were in the French Quarter, I just kept thinking, “I know it smells like piss right now, and that would ruin the mood I bet.”

Kelsey also keeps seeing butterflies around town and thinks it’s her mom trying to send her a message, or approval, of Joey or her time on the show. This is nice and all, and maybe I’m a grump, but I’ve never felt like an animal was a sign my dead loved ones were speaking to me. And…it’s not so unusual to see butterflies in NOLA in a temperate part of the year.

Still, Kelsey is feeling incredibly emotional at the prospect of introducing her potential-fiance to her family without her mom there. It’s understandable! It would be hard.

Kelli: Yeah, I had to ask Emily about the butterflies last time because I was like, are butterflies a rare occurrence in New Orleans? But I guess it’s a comforting thought.

During their time at the park, they also see a bride having what looks like a wedding photoshoot, which prompts another conversation about excitement and fear. All I could think about was whether ABC specifically hired people to stand in the background and pretend to take photos for a wedding, because Joey and Kelsey don’t even interact with the bride (unlike the definitely-hired magical foreigners who appear in every city to quiz the couples about love).

They spend some time in a bar called Molly’s, and Joey asks Kelsey how she’s doing with the mom stuff. They talk a little — nothing we haven’t heard before — and she cries for 2 points. Usually the crying happens in private settings so I appreciated this moment, because I have cried at many bars.

Eventually, Joey and Kelsey make their way to the house where they’ll meet Kelsey’s family. Joey meets her brother, her sister, and her dad, Mark. I feel like there might have been an in-law or partner present but I didn’t write it down and it’s been a week now, so… sorry to that person.

Mary: It’s really strange to me that pretty much Kelsey’s entire meeting with her family centered on her mom. Of course they would want to talk about her mom and fill Joey in on how important she was to the family, but it seemed that at every turn they were talking about how much Kelsey was like her mom, or showing pictures, or reminiscing. Maybe I’m being sour – and I don’t think the solution was to not talk about her – but it feels like the date was overshadowed a bit. There has to be some balance.

Kelli: I sort of feel this way about Kelsey’s entire journey on this show, which is disappointing, because Kelsey is obviously a front-runner and I wish we could see more of what her relationship is like with Joey outside of her grief. It seems like this was definitely a decision made during editing, because Joey is always talking about how bright and fun Kelsey is, and Kelsey also has a really delightfully weird and funny presence on social media. If I were going off of exclusively what the show has shown us about her, I wouldn’t know anything about her personality aside from what Joey tells us. Let women have personalities, ABC.

Mary: It’s definitely a very Bachelor choice to focus on the sad story instead of the woman behind it. Kelsey seems cool from everything Joey and her family say about her, but how would we know?

Kelli: Anyway, back to the hometown. Kelsey’s dad has prepped a scrapbook with a bunch of old photos of the family and her mom, so they look at that, and then Kelsey has a chat with her sister, who wants only good things for Kelsey, of course.

Mary: When Joey and Kelsey’s dad have a moment together, it’s very tender. They have a nice conversation and Joey explains – for the first time, but not the last time – that he’s trying to be a bit reserved with everyone in the feelings department. He doesn’t want to tell someone he has serious feelings when there’s still multiple people in the game.

Kelli: Is it just me, or is Mark a zaddy?

Jk, but he’s really handsome I think. After he talks to Joey, Mark tells the camera, “I think a man deserving of Kelsey is one that she picks.” I loved this. It shows that Mark trusts Kelsey to make choices about her relationships and to know for herself what she deserves.

Mary: Yes! It’s absolutely true that even if dudes think it’s “respectful” to ask for permission to marry someone’s daughter, it’s ultimately the daughter’s pick! Kelsey then talks to her dad about Joey, and she explains that she’s really opened up and been vulnerable about her experiences with her mom. She emphasizes that she told Joey that her dad took care of her mom in sickness and in health, and that that’s important to her, the kind of love she’s looking for. Honestly? A great thing to look for! You’re not young and hot and able-bodied forever!

Kelsey tells her dad that she thinks she loves Joey for 10 points! Not falling, not maybe, but IN LOVE!

Kelli: At the end of the night, Joey and Kelsey make out on a bench, and Joey says that he’s really happy with where they are right now. He’d count himself lucky to be part of her family.

Mary: But we can’t dwell on Kelsey forever. It’s time to move on to Rachel who takes Joey to Hawa— just kidding, it’s Rancho Cucamonga in California. It’s baffling that the Bachelor producers missed a chance to take the show to Hawaii for a date, or why they chose to fly Rachel’s entire family to California, which can’t have been (as Emily pointed out via text) cheaper or more reasonable. Was it filming schedules that decided this weird choice? Who knows.

Kelli: Yeah, that was a weird choice. Either way, Rachel and Joey start the date with a very gentle run and jump (5 points). More of a climb and squeeze.

Though we’re in California, we still get to learn a little bit more about Rachel’s cultural heritage. She is both Hawaiian and Filipino, and she wants to make sure that Joey is aware of her family’s customs ahead of time so that he can greet them properly. She teaches him how to do the mano po, which is a gesture of respect given to elders in the Filipino culture. Joey should greet her mother like this, by taking her hand and pressing his forehead to it. Rachel tells Joey that he can call her dad Mr. Nance, until he can call him Uncle.

Mary: It’s not part of my culture, but even I know you absolutely cannot call someone you just met Uncle.

Kelli: Joey is very serious about being respectful, and he executes the greetings flawlessly. They meet up with Rachel’s family at a big backyard celebration. Notable family members include Rachel’s mom, Noela, her dad, Hakim, her sister, Amanda, and her nephew, Liam. They’ve roasted a full pig, which represents honor for the celebrant, and a suitor is supposed to eat the pig’s ear if interested in a woman. Joey eats the pig ear without hesitation. He is always game for this kind of thing, which I really appreciate about him. I’m also glad that the show didn’t do any weird disrespectful editing here, which they’ve definitely done before to purposefully ‘other’ different cultures.

joey making some more blistering eye contact

Mary: Yes! It felt very warm and open, which was great. It felt like Rachel was ready for Joey to be weirded out by a few things (like the pig ear), but he was all in. The family really went all out with making a mini Hawaii (although hey, he could’ve just went there, but whatever).

Throughout the date, everyone seems to be dancing around something that happened in the past with Rachel’s ex, and there are several cutaways where a family member mentions “the past.” Rachel sits down with her dad and talks about her feelings for Joey, and though he’s approving of how respectful Joey has been, he cautions her to not lean into extreme feelings if the proposal doesn’t happen. Rachel is emotional (crying for 2 points) as she explains that she just feels safe with Joey. Okay, but were you unsafe before? Rachel please tell us what happened! Rachel’s dad also cries. I love it when dads are emotional talking about how much they love their kids. I think Rachel’s dad should get 2 dad points.

Kelli: Meanwhile, Joey faces the scrutiny of Noela, who may be the most skeptical parent of the episode (for good reason, obviously, because the concept of this show is unhinged). Joey says he can sense and understand her hesitancy, and Noela says that while she of course wishes the best for Joey, she wishes the best for Rachel more. She’s concerned about the three other women. She reiterates these concerns when she and Rachel sit down together later, and she warns her daughter to guard her heart.

Mary: Joey sits down for the big talk with Rachel’s dad Hakim. Hakim very openly says that he doesn’t want Rachel to get hurt again like she did in the past (what happened?!). Joey considers that Hakim is pretty traditional (he says after meeting him for all of five minutes), and asks for his blessing in marrying Rachel (10 points). Hakim doesn’t give him an answer either way, and says that they can talk later man to man if it comes up. I appreciate how guarded Rachel’s family was, because it would be hard to come to terms with the reality (and terrible track record) and Bachelor relationships.

Kelli: Rachel finally talks to her sister, who is the one person in her family who doesn’t seem terrified that Rachel is going to ruin her whole life by falling in love with Joey. She tells Rachel that if she feels it, she should go for it, and that her support system is here if and when she needs them. Rachel seems comforted by this, because of course parents are going to be protective — especially after Rachel’s last relationship, which definitely sounds like it ended badly and was tough on the whole family — but her sister’s perspective is closer to her own. She takes the advice to heart for her conversation with Joey.

Mary: Rachel and Joey have a quiet moment on a bench and Rachel starts crying from the emotional stress of it all (I’m assuming). She tells Joey she doesn’t usually cry so much unless a dog dies, which, girl, same.

Kelli: I also would like Rachel to know that it’s okay if and when she does cry, as someone who cries all the time and constantly apologizes for it.

Mary: Then, Rachel gets down to business and tells Joey she’s falling in love with him for 10 points. Like a Pokemon trainer, Rachel says she’s choosing Joey. For his part, Joey receives the love news well and says that Rachel’s family is amazing.

Kelli: Now that we’re done with Hawaii-in-California, It’s time for Christmas-in-October! It doesn’t matter what time of year it actually is, because in Daisy’s hometown of Becker, Minnesota, it’s Christmas all year long.

Daisy got the memo and greets Joey with a run-and-jump for 5 points. Today, they’re going to explore her family’s old Christmas tree farm. She says ‘their old farm,’ so I’m not sure if this farm still belongs to them or what exactly the situation is, but it seems Daisy spent a lot of time on the farm as a youngster, and the entire Christmas vibe reminds her of her childhood.

The farm has arranged an impromptu Christmas festival with activities ranging from a petting zoo to a “wish tree.” While making an ornament for the aforementioned wish tree, Daisy asks a very serious child if Joey is on the naughty or nice list. The child refuses to answer, and Joey says, “I think he said nice.” The child stares eerily into the distance, unable to make eye contact with Joey or Daisy. “I did not say that,” he tells them.

Mary: This is a very bizarre and not fun date to me. I don’t like a Christmas tree farm on the best days, and I really don’t like it when it’s not cold and there are creepy children around. Where did they get this kid? Does Daisy know him??

Daisy’s friends make an appearance by sneaking up to them at the farm. For the billionth time, Daisy mentions that she wasn’t sure who or if anyone would want to be with her romantically because she’s dIfFeReNt. The Bachelor experience has made her realize that she does deserve love, she says. She’s got a new outlook, even if she doesn’t end up with Joey! And hey, there’s always Bachelorette, Daisy!

I haven’t been able to weigh in on this before, but now I have a voice here. The way editors have portrayed Daisy this season has kind of irked me. Yes, Daisy’s illness is a huge part of her narrative and surely changed her life. And yes, having a cochlear implant as an adult is difficult and a huge learning curve! But Daisy is a conventionally attractive, seemingly very kind person, and there are TONS of people who are into that! Daisy – and by extension the show – doesn’t need to sell herself short. Whew. I’m glad I said that.

Kelli: Yeah, I definitely get where you’re coming from on that. There is a lot of emphasis on Daisy being super different than the other options for Joey, and while she does have that implant and the potential for future illness, she’s fairly conventional as far as contestants on this show go. She comes from a loving, traditional, and presumably Christian family (I didn’t miss the cross necklace during her first one-on-one), she’s an account executive living in San Diego, and as we learn in this episode, she is ready for love

Mary: Despite her optimism, Daisy says that if it doesn’t work out with Joey, it’s going to be hard to get over him. Is this a perfect Bachelorette narrative, or what?

Kelli: Yeah, Daisy is getting a very strong Bachelorette edit. In fact, I bet my girlfriend $20 that Daisy’s going to be the Bachelorette over Maria, despite the strong campaign going for Maria on social media right now.

Anyway, it’s time to meet Daisy’s family! I actually wrote down all of the names this time, so here they are: mom Julie, dad Brandon, sister Josephine, brother Harrison, grandpa Ted, and grandma Gloria. Daisy shares with her family that she’s told Joey about all of her health struggles, and how that’s brought them closer as a couple. Then, she asks her brother about college, and when he replies, Daisy gets really emotional and says that Harrison sounds like Harrison. We know from earlier in the season that Daisy hears voices differently now than she used to as she’s still adjusting to her cochlear implant, so this is the first time she’s heard her brother’s voice since before her hearing loss. Joey explains this in an ITM, and he seems so genuinely happy for her, and happy that he was able to be there for such a special moment. It’s really sweet.

Mary: When Daisy talks with her mom, mom is shocked that Daisy isn’t being completely vulnerable with Joey. Daisy ends up getting emotional, crying for 2 points, and telling her mom that she’s going to try to be more open in the future. Good for you, Daisy. Be open! Daisy’s mom does have a good point – if you can’t be open with the person you’re with, what are you even doing?

Kelli: Next, Daisy talks to her dad, who seems to have a slightly more laid back approach to… basically everything. Daisy tells him she’s falling in love (5 points), and her dad says that while putting up a wall is normal, if she wants this to work, she’ll have to get past it. He tells her to shoot her shot, because it’s just love — “it’s not like you’re gonna lose your hearing over it.” Lol.

Mary: I love how her family is joking about her hearing loss, for real. Sometimes you have to make fun of the crappy things that happen to you. Daisy clearly feels empowered by talking to her family, and she ends the date by telling Joey directly that she’s falling in love with him and that she’s BEEN falling in love with him, but couldn’t express it until now. She gets a nice 10 points for telling Joey her feelings to his face. In response, Joey shares that he “feel[s] the same way.”

Kelli: I feel like Joey’s words to Daisy are reassuring in a way he hasn’t been with some of the other women, but I think he’s also pretty blissed out that she’s falling because he was afraid last week that she wouldn’t get there.

Speaking of people who aren’t going to be reassured: it’s time for Maria’s hometown! As previously stated, we are not in Canada for this; instead we’re on the New York side of Niagara Falls, which is, admittedly, extremely close to Canada. Joey says, “It seems like with Maria sometimes I take one step forward and two steps back.” The writing is already on the wall, but they might as well take some shots of maple whiskey and flirt under a waterfall.

Mary: Of course, Maria and Joey can’t frolic in the falls for too long. It doesn’t take long for Maria to pull Joey aside for a Talk. Joey explains that the previous week (you know, the one where Maria freaked out and almost left the show) was a challenge for him. Maria brushes it off and explains that if she’d chosen to actually leave, she’d have regretted it. But it’s hard for her to see him with other women! Wah! This is the point where I wonder if Maria has ever watched the show and understands the premise.

Joey doesn’t chastise her per se, but he says that he wants to have no doubts about their future together, or that she even sees a future for them. Maria tries to reassure him that she does see their future and she’ll never act like that again. Unfortunately, Joey isn’t convinced by her speech, as he reveals in an ITM. There’s a tension set up before they get to Maria’s family. Maria continuously says that she’s never brought anyone home, which makes Joey feel special, but it also makes him wonder…why hasn’t she been open with other people in the past? And why hasn’t she wanted them to meet her family?

Kelli: Meanwhile, Maria’s family is waiting for her triumphant return (and to meet Joey, I guess). Her dad, Nick, very quickly establishes himself as the main character of this family, though her mom, brother, and a friend are also present. Nick says that Maria is “100% a daddy’s girl,” and that if she gets hurt, it’s going to be a problem for Joey. In the background, what I can only assume is the first result after searching “traditional Greek music” into an audio stock search bar starts playing, and the vibe is very “you come to me on the day of my daughter’s wedding” (yes, I know that’s Italian).

Mary: Nick is very much giving Godfather vibes, and the producers/editors chose to use the cheesiest mafia music I’ve ever heard, which is a weird choice because they’re Greek. I also want to note that in my watch of the show, this is where I began to wonder if Maria’s mom was ever going to speak. Spoiler alert: She does not. No one talks to her throughout the entire date, and it makes me wonder why.

Maria begins bawling as soon as she walks in the door, overwhelmed with emotion at seeing her family again. Maria’s grandmother (who isn’t there for some reason??) has prepared stuffed peppers for dinner, and Joey talks about how his family ate this growing up, but it was nowhere as good. Clever move, Joey. Always compliment the food.

Kelli: But also, sorry to Joey’s mom.

Mary: Maria steps away to talk to her friend about Joey and begins crying because she feels – as she’s said many times before – insecure about the other women on the show. Her friend joins her in crying. I think Maria should get 2 crying points and 1 bonus point for bringing her friend to tears.

Kelli: I am on board with that. I think we can also give Maria 2 more points for friendship because she’s my last girl and I’ll take whatever I can get. Maria’s friend also says that she knows Maria has a tendency to hold back when she’s afraid of getting hurt, which continues to come up. As we can see, she’s crying with everyone except for Joey.

Joey and Nick sit down for their chat, which ends up being a lot more chill than the producers were leading us to believe. Nick asks Joey if Maria mentioned the accident, which Joey confirms, and Nick says that was the worst day of his life because he almost lost her. Maria is his angel and his princess, and he just worries about the other women on the show and if the things Joey is saying to Maria he’s also saying to them. Joey says he’s been careful with his words and what he says because he doesn’t know how you could communicate love to more than one person at a time, but he does feel strongly about Maria. The only thing that scares him is the way she holds back. He then tells Nick that he wouldn’t feel comfortable proposing to Maria without the blessing of her family — and especially her father (10 points). Nick says that if Maria were to choose Joey, then Joey would be like more than a son to him, and they’d have a big fat Greek-Italian wedding.

I find it interesting that Joey only asked two of the dads for their blessing (or that’s what we saw, anyway). He asks Rachel’s dad and Maria’s dad, noting in both cases that they seem sort of traditional. I wonder if he asked all of the dads and we just didn’t see it, or if he was weighing things based on the vibe of the family. I would have liked it better if he hadn’t asked at all, because I hate the idea that a family gets to “give” a daughter away like she’s something owned. But seeing 2/4 isn’t terrible, so here’s hoping this convention continues to wane as the seasons go on.

Mary: When it’s Maria’s turn to talk with her dad, he asks her if she’s really happy with Joey. She starts crying, again, and like… I get that it’s an emotional thing, but if you’re crying that much because you’re happy with someone, I have questions and concerns. Maria explains that it’s been hard to open up to Joey, and Nick compliments how happy she looks with him. Like Daisy’s mom, Nick advises Maria to be a little more vulnerable. He also totally spills the beans on Joey’s request for his blessing. Maria says, “I don’t think you were supposed to tell me that,” and you know, I don’t think he was either.

Kelli: After she talks with her dad, Maria and Joey watch some of her childhood videos while her family creepily watches them watching through a window directly above them. This has to be some of the most bizarre framing in Bachelor history. When they get ready to say goodbye, Maria seems like she might be about to tell Joey how she feels about him, but at the last second she freezes and simply says “I really appreciate you being here.”

Mary: I have to say, I’m not really vibing with Maria this season. From the beginning, she’s seemed kind of “I’m not like the other girls,” and while she’s incredibly playful with Joey, she’s been caught up in endless drama with the other women. Seeing how she behaved in this hometown, I think that it’s almost entirely because she’s insecure about herself, and hey! She shouldn’t be! That’s easier said than done, though.

Kelli: As regular readers of the recaps probably know, I am Team Maria, and not just because she’s on my team. I think Maria is actually quite confident, and I think that the reason she ends up in conflict with other women in the house is because her personality is just… kind of a lot. She comes off as showboaty and a bit annoying, and she doesn’t approach conflict well, which only makes things spin out more. But she clearly made close friends with some of the women in the house, and I think it also says something that she shared such an intimate exchange with one of her best friends during her hometown date. I’m looking forward to seeing more from Maria on this franchise. My prediction for her is First Sand on the next season of Paradise.

Mary: Back in LA, we have a dramatic setting for the rose ceremony: a plane hangar. We hear about everyone’s insecurities and worries in ITMs before they take their place. Kelsey confesses that they’ve all become good friends over the course of the show, and it’s going to be hard to watch one of her friends get heartbroken. I think it’s safe to say everyone looks stunning in their best evening gowns, which does seem out of place in this weird hangar.

Kelli: I have to give a special shout out to Kelsey’s dress, which is a beautiful olive green with a structured bust. I love it, I want it.

Maria, looking lovely in purple sparkles, is spinning out about how she didn’t tell Joey she was falling at the end of her date. When Joey shows up, she asks if they can quickly talk. They try to find a private place in the airplane hangar (why are we in an airplane hangar), and Maria tells Joey that she’s falling for him (10 points) and that she’d regret it if she didn’t tell him. He thanks her, they hug, and they return to the rose ceremony. It seems pretty clear by Joey’s response and by the look on his face that he’s already made up his mind.

Mary: Unsurprisingly, Rachel, Kelsey, and Daisy are PISSED at Maria for stealing Joey away before roses start getting given out. I mean, I’d be mad too. It feels like Maria has done this almost every time there’s been an inappropriate moment to talk to Joey – not always at the rose ceremony, but just in general.

Kelli: It’s kind of funny because Rachel is like, “what was that about?” And Maria is like “I don’t know,” and Rachel is like “You just pulled him and you don’t know???” I can see why Rachel is frustrated but also I can see why Maria doesn’t want to whisper “Well I didn’t tell him during my date that I was falling for him so I just had to tell him right now real quick,” lol. Anyway, I’m gonna give her 3 points for causing chaos at the last minute.

Also, let us not forget that Joey was the one who pulled Maria before the rose ceremony last time, which was not her fault! Otherwise I think the only inappropriate time she talked to Joey was when she already had a group date rose at the cocktail party, but like… whatever. Again: Team Maria.

Joey gives the roses out in order: Daisy, Kelsey, and Rachel. Maria is going home. RIP Team Throw it in the Fire. We never stood a chance.

Mary: Joey is a gentleman so he walks Maria out and they sit on a bench together to discuss what just happened. He explains that the decision to send Maria home was hard for him, and he still isn’t sure what to say about it or how to explain it. In a very tender way, he tells Maria that she didn’t do anything wrong, and that she said everything he needed to hear, but he just wasn’t completely in it and it would be dishonest to string her along. I guess their hometown wasn’t enough to get over those doubts after all.

Kelli: In the car, Maria seems conflicted. First she says “I told Joey I’m falling for him, and if that’s not enough, what more can I give this man?” Then, she says that her biggest regret is not telling him how she felt sooner. She seems angry, hurt, and disappointed in herself. I feel for her.

See you next week for Fantasy Suites, in which I will get NO POINTS because my team has been DECIMATED. Fuck.

Emily’s Team - Team Daisy is My Yoshi