We finally made it! And so there is no suspense throughout this post: yes, Mary did win our family Survivor Fantasy league, and she will be treated to a dinner out on the rest of us...at an appropriate time. Still, we have more to talk about! Is Tony the GOAT? Is Michele a goat? Did Ben basically just give up, and how do we feel about him now? What about Natalie? She was there! And Lacina (which is how we should all refer to her from now on)! And why didn’t Jeff play the entirety of the Winners at War theme song? Can you hear the people sing, Jeff? Ya better be ready...they’re coming...for you! Let’s get into it!

Todd: Wooh. It happened. The finale is done, and despite the final final 6 consisting of 4 women and only 2 men, wouldn’t you know it, Tony won! And I want to start by saying that Tony is a very deserving winner, and while questions about his greatness are mostly overblown in my opinion, he definitely played a deserving game this season. The craziness with the ladder and his general underplaying at the beginning of the season led to finding idols, winning 4(!) individual immunity challenges, the spy nest(!!!), and a pretty firm handle on all the big moves that were made throughout the merge. Did Tony himself do all of that in a vacuum? Of course not. But, as Lacina pointed out in the first tribal of the finale, that’s often how these kinds of things are perceived in Survivor. There’s an idea in history (and literature and science and…) known as the Great Man Theory, which basically says that history (or literature or film or…) has been shaped by a bunch of Great Men, who singlehandedly forced things to happen. Now, while it is definitely true that some people have more influence than others when deciding things in the world, it is also pretty easy to see where this theory falls flat: George Washington can do nothing without dedicated soldiers, and similarly Tony does nothing without his tight alliance of Ben, Lacina, and to a lesser extent Denise (or Nick or Jeremy or…). Did Tony make some incredible moves this season? Yes. Do I think Tony was the only person worthy to win this season? Certainly not, and I think until Survivor (or American society maybe) can extrapolate itself from the idea that the people who make the biggest, flashiest moves are the best (like those seasons of American Idol where people thought that doing big vocal runs would land them victory), then we might be stuck in this cycle where the same kinds of people keep winning season after season. (Honestly, Tommy from IoI sort of breaks this model, but as in most things, it is best not to speak of IoI.)

Mary, what did you think of this season’s winner? Should someone else have won?Also, what do we do with this stat: since Season 25, only 3 women have won Survivor.

Mary: I felt like Tony was going to win, but I’m not sure that I wanted it. On one hand, I do think Tony is pretty deserving of this win; he’s made a lot of big moves and used his insane skills (the spy shack!) to his advantage. On the other hand, none of his run would’ve been possible without Sarah (or, excuse me, Lacina) helping him. Sarah was consistently a grounding presence for Tony. Any time he was getting too paranoid, too excited, Sarah told him to calm down. Sarah was his rock, and a lot of the clever moves that seemed like they came from Tony were also coming from Sarah, but Sarah didn’t get to argue her case in final tribal. I realize it sounds wild for me to be celebrating Sarah in the finale while I was prepared (and excited?) for a Natalie win, but seeing Natalie return and seeing how she chose to play the game at the end soured her for me. I didn’t like Natalie initially, and didn’t find her very interesting throughout her time on the Edge, but I like the narrative of the underdog returning. But Natalie doesn’t really feel like an underdog, does she? She’s physically the most fit person out there, in my opinion, and she’s not stupid by any means.

Meanwhile, Sarah, with her huge speech advocating for better representation of women on the show, really surprised me in this finale, and I’m sad she didn’t win. Sarah’s talk was genuinely moving--and she brings up some excellent points. Jeff does only call men by their last names as a sign of affection. Men do seem to win more often and be praised more often than their women competitors. She’s not wrong, and for a moment I let myself get excited about a final tribal of Natalie, Sarah, and Michelle, which would surely mean Sarah won (her resume! Her speech!). But then, Natalie made Tony and Sarah compete against one another in a fire making challenge, and Tony won. I like Tony just fine, and I think he’s the person out of the final three who I’d most want to win, but I also really enjoyed Sarah’s game this season, and I think she deserved more recognition for what a great game she played.

Natalie, Tony, and Michelle, our final three!

Todd: I couldn’t agree more. Lacina would have been just as deserving as Tony, but probably if they both went to the final 3, her gameplay would not be appreciated as much as Tony’s. A quick tip of the hat to the other players who bowed out in this finale. Denise, the Queenslayer, was never really able to get any momentum after making one of the boldest moves of the season. Cheers to Denise!

Mary: I think we have to talk about Ben.

Todd: *sigh* We do, don’t we.

Mary: My big dumb boy, Ben. Ben made a big deal of how he wanted to play a different game this season, one focused on relationships and social aspects of the game, and I really think he did. He also acted, well, goofy. I think Ben was more himself this season, and it was good to see that. I like this for him.

In the finale, there’s a moment when Ben knows he’s going to lose. Sarah’s plan to keep him in is a longshot at best, and someone is going to have to get betrayed in the process, probably. So he tells her to vote him out. Both of them cried and hugged each other, but it felt like one of the most peaceful, sweet moments I’ve seen on Survivor. I don’t think that Ben gave up; I think Ben realized that he was being the bigger person and protecting his friends/allies by going out of the game when he did. That’s a big decision to make, but I don’t think we should see him as weaker because of it.

A lot of contestants talk about how the game changes them and makes them better people blah blah blah, but I think it was really true for Ben.

Todd: Honestly? I agree! I feel like a lot of people will look at what Ben did and say he quit. But a better way of looking at it is that Ben probably could tell that he wasn’t going to get any votes, and so he’d rather be on the jury and help his friends win then stand in their way. Would he have been an even bigger help to Lacina’s game if he stayed and beat Tony at the firemaking challenge? Almost certainly, but let’s not split hairs here: Ben’s decision was very moving and it was great to see this real moment, a moment not defined by real gameplay but more about the relationships that these people had built. (In this way it reminds me of Lacina deciding to give a reward to Nick because it was his birthday. Because all of these people are winners, they don’t feel as precious about each opportunity. They’ve all already climbed to the heights of Survivor; everything else is gravy.)

I want to take this time to also give a tip of the hat to all the people who made it through the Edge, especially all the Old School players who may or may not have brought someone in our house to tears.

Mary: It was you. You were brought to tears.

Todd: ROB JUST LOVES AMBER SO MUCH, MARY!

Mary: He does! I feel like surviving on the Edge is a huge accomplishment, and they all deserve to be proud. Each time Rob or Amber talks about “how much the game has given” them I say EACH OTHER! FOUR KIDS! They’re the greatest Survivor love story and I. AM. HERE. FOR. IT. Every time.

Todd: Oh, and did we mention? The Survivor cancer charity that Ethan helped start? CAME UP WITH THE MEDICINE THAT LITERALLY. SAVED. HIS. LIFE. C’MON!

That is a powerful statement, and really goes to show the impact that Survivor has had, not only on all of the viewers, but on these people who come into our homes and become part of our lives. (Also, shout out to the editors for showing us a shot of Adam while Ethan was talking about that. That one really got to me, too.) The strength of this season has been the weight of history between all of these players and the audience. There can never be another season like this. I’d be surprised if Sandra or Ethan or Amber ever come out to play again (though Rob will always come back, I think). Even Tyson seemed like he was hanging up his Survivor hat in favor of his Dad hat (and good on him for that!). Regardless of how I feel about the Edge, it was undeniably awesome to see all of these Survivor legends standing together one last time.

Mary: I think that your point about the weight of history is probably the best way to sum up how I feel about this season. I’m not sure I’m ready to declare it the BEST season of Survivor, but it was definitely a GOOD season of Survivor. However, I don’t think I would’ve thought that if I hadn’t seen (or been told about) the seasons everyone originally won. Without that context, that history, it’s kind of just a bunch of slightly older contestants hanging out on an island and griping about things we have no context for.

Todd: Yup! And I like that the producers didn’t feel the need to go out of the way to explain everything to us. When Ben said to Michele, “As a fellow controversial winner…” That sentence doesn’t make sense if you haven’t watched their seasons. Heck, it might not even make sense if you are not an Extremely-Online-Survivor-Fan. At some points, the season really seemed to delve into the relationships that Survivor contestants have formed in a way that no season ever has before. Things like the Poker Alliance, or Wendell and Michele’s whatever-they-were would never have come up on previous all-returnee seasons. The producers wanted to retain the “integrity” of the game, but that is a myth that has never really existed. People talk! They form pre-show alliances, and then of course when they hit the beach a lot of that stuff changes on the fly. This season has blown open a lot of the conventions of past seasons while showing that the bones of the show are still great!

But let’s be real Survivor fans for a moment and talk about some of the new twists. Do we like fire tokens? And how far away should the Edge go? Does it needs its own Redemption Island for it to sit on for a while, all by itself? Has this analogy gone too far up its own butt?

Mary: I think the fire tokens were basically worthless. They didn’t really add anything to the game, but they also didn’t make me mad. I thought some of the new advantages/disadvantages were fun (like Tony’s extortion!), but they weren’t the most interesting part of the show. The most interesting thing to me, consistently, was the relationships between the players. I appreciated getting to see more camp-life moments and that is what needs to come back to the game, not some new thing like fire tokens.

What are your predictions for next season? We got absolutely no indication of what it’ll be like, and it seems that casting is still open. Todd, it’s not too late to get on the show!

Todd: It could be me! Here’s the thing, I think if I got on, I would totally be like the next Devens, in terms of archetype, which is a funny twist of fate.

I am not sure what next season will hold. Rob Cesternino, on his podcast, suggested a Wild Wild West season set in America, and I think that a season set not-in-Fiji does seem more likely than not. I was surprised when Jeff said they were definitely committed to being on in the fall, and even more shocked when he suggested that 16-year-old babies should apply! Please, don’t do that Jeff! Think of the children!

Still, I am excited for what the future holds for Survivor, and Winners at War was a pretty great way to look back on all that has come before.

But c’mon, Jeff! Give us that theme song! We need it in our iTunes and our Spotifys!

Ya better be ready…

That’s all this season for

SURVIVOR:

WINNERS

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR!