Well that was quite an episode, wasn’t it? Sadly, Susan picked this week (OFF ALL WEEKS!) to take a quick little vacation, so you’re stuck with Emily and Kelli (again). Emily and Kelli just up on this blog recapping everything nowadays. We’ve got a lot of ground to cover in this episode, so let’s not waste any more time. Let’s do this.

Emily: It’s “hometowns” week, and Katie’s so excited to see the guys. I feel like I’ve said this before, but it bears repeating. Generally speaking, hometown dates are super boring and I really don’t care much about meeting these people’s families, mostly because it’s just the same conversation over and over again every season. Here’s the script: My son/daughter/sister/brother/BFF is really special. I don’t want to see them get hurt. I’ve never seen them this way with anyone before. Do you love them? How can you be sure when there are still other people here that you’re dating and getting to know?

You get the idea.

And hometowns this week are going to be really different from pre-2020 hometowns, because they’re all taking place at the resort. No hometowns are actually visited. Although at this point, I guess this is (I’m sorry) the NEW NORMAL.

Kelli: The hometowns being at the resort actually makes them even more boring than before. At least with pre-2020 hometowns we could see some nice landscapes and scenery, depending on the hometown in question. Now we just see various parts of the resort dressed up as cities, and not even convincingly. I mean, what is all of that travel budget from before going towards now? Feeding the dozens of horses they now have on staff?

Emily: First up is Blake, although based on what happens later, I question the order of the dates and how all of this shook out in real time. But anyway, as far as our TVs are concerned, Blake is first. We start with a good ole run and jump, which gets Blake 5 points. And then Blake tells Katie he’s taking her to Canada. But not really though. They’re going to New Mexico, Canada.

Kelli: Blake shows Katie the Canadian way of life, which is mostly just syrup. He tells her that in Canada, they put syrup on everything, and he keeps a bottle of it on his bedside table. Katie asks if he has used syrup during sex, and based on his facial expression (that charming Blake combo of mischievous and slightly unhinged), we know that he has. They play darts, which is Blake’s favorite pastime (other than being in Africa), and Blake has a little game set up where they pop balloons and different questions and challenges are revealed. It’s kind of like the date she went on with Andrew a few weeks back, but less cute. Katie reads one that says “touch me on your favorite body part,” and he kisses her (but kiss points are no longer awarded from hometown dates to the end) and grabs her ass hard. I am not sure I’ve ever seen an ass grabbed quite so aggressively on this show, so I’m going to give Blake 1 point for that (on top of the additional ass grab 3 points).

Emily: While Blake and Katie are frolicking around and having a great time (I guess), Greg “accidentally” sees their date. And by accidentally, I mean a producer probably saw Greg looking out a window and was like, “No, no, Greg. Not that window. Try this window over here.” Watching Katie have fun and kiss on another man, Greg says he’s sick to his stomach, and it’s hard for him to face the fact that she’s going to catch feelings for other guys.

Kelli: Yeah, this is the other weird thing about the resort situation. Normally at this point, the guys would all be in their own hometowns and would probably not be catching glimpses of Katie on hometown dates with their competitors. All of them being trapped on this resort together really exacerbates the discomfort of this already bizarre situation, and some people… deal better with that than others.

Emily: Before Blake and Katie go to meet Blake’s parents, Blake reminds her that she doesn’t have to be great, she just has to be herself. I feel like he was trying to be reassuring in this moment, but my immediate response to something like this would be, “Bitch what do you mean? I am great. My truest self is greatness.” Like what the hell, bro.

Kelli: Words are not Blake’s strength.

Katie, wearing a truly deranged outfit featuring a pink mini short-sleeved cardigan circa the early aughts, meets Blake’s mom, sister, and brother. They all look exactly like him and they are all pretty cool, mostly because they roast Blake multiple times throughout the evening. Katie sits down with Blake’s mom and Katie reveals that they have not said “I love you” yet, and Blake’s mom asks if she thinks that’s because they’re a little behind with Blake showing up late. This is when Katie explains what will be a THEME throughout this episode: she is only going to say “I love you” to her final person because she wants to save that for them, and it feels weird to say those words when she’s in serious relationships with other people. Counterpoint: EITHER WAY it is weird to be in serious relationships with multiple people at the same time, so if you do love someone, you might as well say it. But I am just a simple pleb without the weight of The Bachelorette title on my shoulders, so who am I to judge.

Emily: Yeah. Kelli, I know you’re a newer viewer, but here’s a little Bachelor history lesson for everyone. Back in the day, the lead never told anyone that they were falling in love with them. It just wasn’t done. That would be like, I don’t know, telling a contestant that you were DEFINITELY going to pick them or *gasp* having sex outside of a fantasy suite date. But then Ben Higgins came along. Ben told his final two that he was in love with them, and it was SHOCKING. It caused a lot of drama. Both girls assumed it was definitely going to be them at the end because Ben had said those three little words to them. As a result, JoJo’s heart got broken (I guess), and we ended up having to have her as our Bachelorette even though she was boring as hell and had really, REALLY, (I can’t stress this enough) REALLY FUCKING BAD taste in men. And to think all of this could have been avoided if Ben Higgins had kept his mouth shut. But here we are in 2021, and now Katie’s a rebel because she refuses to say the “L” word. We are truly living in unprecedented times.

Anyway, back to the date. Struggling not to pass out from boredom.

Kelli: Blake’s mom tells him that he needs to “man up” and say that he loves Katie, and while I don’t love the use of the phrase “man up,” I don’t disagree with her sentiment, especially since it seems like he does feel it with Katie. Of course, as his sister pointed out, Blake has essentially “fallen in love” with every woman he’s met during this process so far, so… his love is probably not that difficult to earn. I will say that it seems like all Blake really wants is someone to love him back, and this is the first time we’ve seen him with someone who might actually be able to return the favor. Still, he… does not say it.

Emily: Yeah, frankly, I’m just surprised Blake has made it this far. He seems fine. No. Wait. No he doesn’t. I hate him. We’ve just had a lot of really great, really cool-seeming, really hot guys on this season. And yet here we are.

Anyway, Blake says, “That word is going to be used. It’s a matter of when. It just needs to come naturally.” So. Yeah. I don’t know. This is boring. What else is going on?

Kelli: Meanwhile, we get a little scene of Justin on the phone with his parents, who have decided that they are not going to come and meet Katie because this whole thing seems kind of ridiculous. Justin is obviously frustrated and hurt by this, and I am frustrated for him, because it definitely seems like his mom and dad are not really taking this as seriously as he is, and he really just wants them to support him. On the other hand, I can’t really blame them for opting out—especially given that this requires them making the journey to New Mexico rather than Katie making the journey to Baltimore. We don’t know what their situation is; maybe they’re working, maybe they’re immunocompromised, who knows—so I don’t want to judge them too harshly.

The closest we’ll get to meeting Justin’s parents

Emily: Justin’s mom tells him, “Your dad and I will support you, but I just find it difficult to understand how anyone could get to know someone in this short amount of time to propose.” This might seem harsh, but this is basically the same conversation every parent has with their son/daughter on this show. And if I were a parent and I felt this way, I too would have a hard time leaving my life, quarantining for two weeks, and being on camera for something I didn’t sign up for in the first place. So I very much get this, and I’m honestly surprised they’ve been able to get so many family members on the show thus far. Still, it would have been nice if they’d at least offered to FaceTime in or something.

Justin tells the cameras, “Not having my family here is disappointing… but I have my two best friends here who know me very well and know a side of me my parents don’t know.” Way to always look on the bright side, my dude.

Kelli: Sweet Justin.

Emily: When Justin and Katie meet up, Katie does a run and jump, of course. But I feel like she starts running way too soon because it seems like she’s running for ages. I was getting tired watching this. Like, I didn’t sign up to watch a full on sprint here. I’m here for love. Nonetheless, the jump part finally happens, which means Justin gets 5 points.

Here’s where Justin breaks the news to Katie. He tells her his family wasn’t able to make it, but his two best friends are here and they’re like his brothers and they are still part of home. To his face, Katie’s all in. She says “I’m super bummed I’m not going to be able to meet them, but I am glad you have your two friends here.”

Behind his back though? Katie’s like, “With Justin’s family not here, I do wonder if Justin’s ready for a proposal? A marriage? That’s a bit of a struggle for me.” Damn girl. Damn.

Kelli: Once again we get a snapshot of a city via some props, and it’s not particularly interesting. It feels obvious to me that Justin and Katie are not at the same level in their relationship as her relationships with Blake and Greg. They do a lot of joking and fooling around, but they’re not having a lot of serious conversations throughout the day portion of this date. They do eat crabs, though.

Emily: And they do have the very important conversation about blue cheese vs. ranch. As someone who thinks ranch is fucking disgusting, I was so happy to hear that both Justin and Katie are blue cheese people. Otherwise, I don’t know if I could watch the rest of their date.

Kelli: I honestly like both ranch and blue cheese, so I was surprised by the intensity of this conversation, but I guess I’m here with a real live blue cheese head who knows exactly what they were going through in those moments.

Emily: I felt this on a deep, meaningful, personal level.

Kelli: Katie and Justin show up to meet his two best friends, and I am so sorry but I didn’t write their names down. One of them was Herb. I remember that. Anyway, they seem cool, and right away they notice that Justin is different around Katie and seems really into her. One of them mentions that he’s never seen Justin be into PDA, but Justin has his hand on Katie’s leg the whole time and they’re definitely close physically. This is because Katie clearly wants to have Justin in the fantasy suite, and who could blame her? Did you notice all the close-ups on his hands this episode? Because I did.

Emily: Yeah, so we just have to acknowledge this once per episode. Or at least once. Justin is hot. His hands are hot. His emotive face is hot. He’s hot. Like sometimes it’s too much, but we’re making it.

Kelli: Anyway, as if to emphasize their physical connection, one of Justin’s friends asks Katie what stands out about him and she says that he’s “real” and “a good kisser.” His other friend asks Katie what differentiates him from the other relationships and she gives a similar answer. His friends seem sold on her, because they’ve never seen Justin this comfortable or this “himself” around a girl before. We get the impression that Justin has not been in a lot of serious relationships; he mentions that he’s picky and his friends are both like, “Uh, YEAH. He’s REALLY PICKY” in the way that friends do when they’re trying to lovingly point out your flaws.

Emily: I know that we know Justin is not the frontrunner here, but it was still really uncomfortable to see how much Katie struggles to say anything specific about what she likes about him and what made him special. She keeps talking about what a great kisser he is, and she says it’s been a slow progression but once they had that 1-on-1 it was like yes. Like yes what? We don’t know. It just feels, like you said, Kelli, like Katie just really wants Justin to make it to fantasy suites so she can at least bone him once. Which. I GET. Look at him.

But yeah, yeah. I know. He’s a person with feelings too.

Before they say goodnight, Justin tells Katie that the night went perfectly, and that he is falling in love with her (10 points). Sweet, sweet Justin. They kiss because how can they not. He’s the best kisser.

Kelli: Good for Justin for putting it out there. It was more than Blake managed, lol. I don’t necessarily think that Justin has any illusions about being the top dude here—frankly, I think he was surprised that he made it through to hometowns instead of Andrew. But he’s giving it his all, and for that I salute him.

Emily: We like him. Anyway, the rest of this recap will be dedicated to Greg. You’re not emotionally prepared. I’m not emotionally prepared. But here we are.

Kelli: Greg gets the final run and jump of the episode for 5 points. What follows is a very sweet and joyful and perfect-seeming hometown date, despite it being in New Mexico instead of Greg’s actual hometown of Edison, New Jersey. Hold onto these precious moments, Bachelor nation. This is the last time you will ever see Katie and Greg happy together in the sunlight.

Emily: Greg starts the date by saying, “‘Sup,” which really sets the tone for the afternoon, TBH. He tells Katie he lives in a beach down, so they’re going to take a tandem bike and do a “tour” of his “town.” Katie tells Greg she’s never been on a tandem bike before, and he says, “Neither have I.” No one has. It’s not a thing people do. Katie says, “With Greg, it’s natural. It’s easy. He doesn’t try to act too cool. He’s not afraid of expressing himself.” Boy howdy. But we’ll get there.

Kelli: Greg tells Katie that the main thing he used to do with his dad was play basketball, and that his dad was his basketball coach growing up. He tells her that he hasn’t really played basketball at all since his dad passed, and it was something he wanted to share with her. They have fun, even though Katie is not very good at it, and I really felt for her because I, too, am short and uncoordinated. After the basketball, they sit on a bench and talk, and it feels incredibly natural, even compared to her relationship with Blake. Katie and Greg really have “couple vibes” when they’re together, and they seem completely comfortable in every moment, like the conversation flows when it’s supposed to and things are silent when they’re supposed to be and they are both really content to just be sitting there together. It’s incredibly depressing, given what is to come.

Emily: Remember when Greg got really excited about the fake rain on his Seattle date with Katie last week? Well that rain is still giving him a major boner clearly, because it’s back this week. Greg says, “You know how you said it rains in Seattle?” And Katie’s like, “Yeah…” And Greg says, “Well it rains in New Jersey too!” He snaps his fingers and it starts raining, and I’ve never in my life seen an adult man so delighted by anything. Katie’s like, “OMG REALLY?” Like… yes, really, Katie. It rains everywhere. Learn weather.

Kelli: They do some more dramatic rain kissing, and Greg lifts Katie into the air as though she is made of styrofoam. I do not understand how he is so strong.

Emily: It’s really hot though.

Kelli: Finally, it’s time to meet Greg’s family. Katie is really nervous because she knows how important family is to Greg. They go inside and Katie meets Greg’s mom, brother, and one of his best friends. His sisters couldn’t make it because one of them is pregnant and the other has just started a new job, but Greg’s mom says she has a surprise, and the surprise is that both sisters have recorded video messages for Greg and Katie to watch. The second he sees his first sister on screen, Greg starts crying (2 points), and he basically does not stop crying for the rest of the night.

Emily: I’m not ready to relive the collective trauma of Greg’s date, but here we go.

Kelli: Katie has an individual conversation with Greg’s brother, where he tells her that Greg hasn’t really been the same since their dad passed. He’s been quiet and sad, and he also hasn’t talked much about the actual loss. It’s pretty clear that Greg is still at the beginning stages of processing this grief, which is completely normal. Watching shows like this I sometimes forget how young these people are. Greg is 26, which means he was 24 when his dad died, and that is still really early to lose a parent. It’s also very recent. It’s clear that Greg was incredibly close with his dad, and that the loss was devastating for him. And as soon as he gets in the same room as his family again, all of that pain he’s been trying very hard to modulate throughout this process comes rushing up to the surface.

Emily: I’m sure we’ll talk more about the implications of this later, but to me, seeing this made it clear that all the emotional responses we see Greg have later in the episode really stem from this. He has opened up a door to his grief and his pain. His family is recognizing that he’s doing this. It’s something he’s never done before. And that’s something I think we need to consider as we discuss what happens later.

Anyway, when Greg gets to sit down with his family members without Katie there, he expresses to them at this point that he’s really confident with where he and Katie are. He says that he’s in love, and that “it’s gonna be me and her.” This is it. He knows. He also said he was in love, so 5 points for telling his family.

Kelli: Katie sits down with Greg’s mom next, and she is far more effusive than she’s been with anyone else’s parents/friends in this process. She says, “Greg will be here next week. Greg is someone I want to pursue a relationship with… I’m so thankful for him. If he wasn’t here, I don’t know how confident I would be in this whole thing, truthfully.” She also says “I hate to use the word ‘frontrunner,’ but,” effectively using the word frontrunner. Greg’s mom hears all of this, but she still expresses the same concern we hear from most parents: that she’s afraid he’s going to get hurt. In this case, the concern is heightened even more so because she knows that Greg is particularly fragile right now.

Okay, everyone. It’s time for Hell. I hope you’re ready.

Emily: I’m absolutely not ready, but okay.

Kelli: Greg and Katie sit alone together, and Greg asks Katie about the conversation she had with his mom. She struggles not to cry as she tells him that it made her the most emotional when his mom said she hasn’t seen him this happy in a long time. Greg’s eyes, which have been perpetually red throughout this entire evening, immediately well up with tears again. He is ready to lay it all on the line. He says, “I’m so happy, and I told you from the start my family was going to see it. I just feel like I lost a major piece of me with my dad. Seeing him go through that, he had so much life to him, and then it was just gone. And I feel like I lost a part of myself during it all.” He tells her that he feels like she has filled part of what’s been missing in him, and he is fully crying now. He says, “I think you’re beautiful. I think you’re great. I didn’t know I was going to fall in love with you. And I am in love with you. This is real to me. Honestly, I haven’t been this vulnerable with anyone in my life.” 15 points to Greg, because there, he said it to her.

In response, Katie is smiling, and it’s quiet for a while. A long while. An awkward amount of time. She touches his cheek. She says, “I just like looking at you.” They stare at each other for another beat, and then Greg’s facial expression changes so drastically that it’s like a switch has been flipped. This is it: the moment he shuts down.

Emily: I want to say before we dive into this any further that there’s a lot happening with people’s responses to this conversation and the conversation that happens “the next day” (I think there was actually another hometown date between them but whatever). For many people, there’s no way to see what happened between Greg and Katie and not identify with some part of this. The emotions throughout this conversation felt so real and vulnerable and raw. And we feel like we know these people, even though we don’t, and we want to understand what they’re going through. So of course we connect their emotions to feelings of our own.

For me, it was impossible to watch what Greg was going through and not connect it to my own feelings of grief. My brother died nearly four years ago, but it still feels very new and raw, and he did die young, and I can put myself in Greg’s shoes and understand exactly how it would feel to open up to someone about your pain in a way you’ve never done before and not get anything back. Especially because Katie’s been through something so similar and Greg really did feel like they understood each other’s pain. It can be so difficult to find someone who gets you when it comes to grief, because grief is so personal, and when you’re in the middle of it, you feel so alone and misunderstood.

But in saying all this, I want to stress that I understand I’m projecting my own emotions onto what happened. But also how can I not? So while I’m aware that my own trauma is affecting my reaction to what happens with Greg and Katie, that’s how it’s going to be.

Kelli: I want to link to this really great Twitter thread from Ali Barthwell, Bachelor recapper for Vulture and generally awesome person. She gets into the way we personalize the things we see on the show, as well as the way we make assumptions about who these people are based only on what the show’s edit is giving us. Because yes, absolutely: it’s nearly impossible for us to watch emotional situations like this without revisiting our own past traumas, and also, as much as we feel like we know Greg and Katie, we actually don’t.

Emily: With that disclaimer out of the way, here’s what happens next. Katie can tell he’s upset, and she says to him, “You know how I feel about you right? We’re almost there.” But at this point, it’s too little, too late. She tells him, “I want to help but I don’t know what to do.” I felt like this was the wrong thing to say because, again, Greg feels really misunderstood, so hearing her say she doesn’t know what to do translates to mean she doesn’t know what he needs. It’s perhaps a little unfair, but at this moment, it seems like Greg really needs Katie to intuit what he needs to prove she gets it.

He says, “What do you mean?” And Katie says, “You’re just not happy right now.” Again, I didn’t think this was great on Katie’s part. “You’re just not happy right now” is all about how she feels. She’s uncomfortable because he’s unhappy and she wants him not to be. It totally invalidates his feelings and suggests she doesn’t understand why he has any reason to be unhappy.

I know at this point, it seems like I’m totally on Greg’s side and I’m not supporting Katie at all, but we’ll get there.

Kelli: Outside, they continue their conversation in hushed tones. Katie tells Greg that it’s been really hard for her too, asks him how he thinks it feels that she has to meet other people’s families and be in other relationships when she’s so committed to him. He tells her that he doesn’t understand how she doesn’t know at this point, that he’s never emptied his heart out like this before. Katie responds that she needs him to trust their relationship, and this is the first time she’s ever felt like he wanted to give up. He says he’s never felt like she’s held anything back from him until tonight.

And this is the crux of the issue: this is The Bachelorette. If Greg and Katie weren’t on this show right now, if they were two normal people dating in a normal situation, this is an argument they would never have had to endure. This is why people on this show are always saying “you just have to trust the process”—because the lead is often going to have to hold certain things back, even from their first choice. Or that’s the conceit of the show, the unwritten rules which Katie is determined to follow. But we’ve seen people reject that conceit. We all saw what happened with Clare so recently, and another person who comes to mind is Colton—not a great example of ‘what a person should do’ given everything that came out about that relationship after the fact, but certainly a situation where a person broke the “rules” of the show and it still made for great television. There will always be leads telling their final three to “trust the process,” and like Katie said earlier, two of those people will inevitably end up heartbroken every time. I think this is the first time Greg really questions whether he might not be Katie’s choice, and he can’t handle it. At all.

Emily: Right, and this made me question whether Greg was really her choice as well. Because if this guy is really your choice and you want it to be him at the end, bend your fucking rules! Like, fuck the rules!

Kelli: The next morning, the producers force Greg and Blake to have a conversation, because I guess that’s what we’re doing now. Greg tells Blake that he is not doing well, that Blake is handling it a lot better than he is. In his ITM, Greg says that Katie’s lack of reaction when he told her loved her made him really sad. Something isn’t right, and at this point he is certain that she doesn’t feel the same way he does. “It’s clear.” Greg has likely spent the entire night spiraling and convincing himself that Katie is not going to pick him. I have done this in real life, in situations where I am actually the only person my significant other is dating, so it is not very hard to imagine slipping into this state of mind. Assuming this was actually the order in which these events occurred, talking to Blake probably made Greg freak out even more, because Blake is decidedly not spiraling. If I had to guess at Greg’s thoughts during this conversation, they’d be something like: “Blake is being so chill about all of this. Maybe I would be that chill if I knew that Katie was going to choose me. She’s for sure choosing him.”

Emily: I want to again stress that I think this has been more than one night. When Katie talked to Greg the night before, she talked like she had more hometowns she still had to get through. It seems like this conversation with Blake happened while Justin was having his hometown. We know that for dramatic/storytelling purposes, production will move around the dates in editing. That means Greg has a lot of time to keep spiraling. Which had to be especially hard if Katie was on a date with someone else while he’s thinking all of this stuff.

Kelli: Yes, that does explain Justin being weirdly absent from that conversation, especially since it seems like (based on social media) Greg and Justin are closer friends than Greg and Blake, so if he was going to talk to anyone about this it would probably be Justin.

Emily: Time for argument trauma part 2. Greg shows up at Katie’s hotel room, which we all know is not a good sign. Greg tells her, “I just wanted to talk about the other night.” Katie is clearly uncomfortable, and she can tell Greg is closed off and something has shifted between them. She tells him, “You still seem nervous. You don’t seem comfortable. You don’t seem happy.” Greg says, “You seem fine.” She does not seem fine.

Kelli: Katie says, “I’m just holding my breath because I have no idea what you’re going to tell me and it scares me.” This is when Greg launches in. He says that when he told her loved her, he felt like he was talking to a stranger, and that she was giving a surface level response to his vulnerability. “I don’t give a shit about the rose. I was just telling you you fill a hole in my heart.” Katie apologizes for coming off that way, and tells him that she was just trying to listen more than talk because of what he was going through with his dad.

I understand where she is coming from with this, because I know that it can be hard to respond in the moment to someone who is telling you something extremely emotional and vulnerable. You don’t want to say the wrong thing, and sometimes you’re so focused on not saying the wrong thing that you end up saying even less than the wrong thing, which is nothing. I also think that Katie was so focused on the rules of the show and the rules she’s imposed on herself that she was struggling to figure out what to say instead of her natural inclination in that moment, which, for my money, was probably: “I love you too.” But again, this is my interpretation, and there’s no way for me to know what she was actually thinking in those moments.

Emily: I agree. I also can’t help but think back to their first date when Katie opened up to Greg about losing her father and her own grief. In the moment, Greg didn’t seem that responsive, and we find out later that it’s because he was working through his own feelings of losing his dad and how to open up to her about that. Emotions are high, but I do kind of wish that Greg had offered Katie the same kind of grace she gave him on that date. Because he didn’t have the perfect response right away either.

Kelli: For sure. Anyway, this is the point in the conversation when Greg starts to get a little bit manipulative. He has created a narrative in his head that for Katie, this is all about the show. When she tells him that he’s always been her number one, he says that he doesn’t care about what number he is, and says that this is exactly what he’s talking about—who cares who is number one or number two, who cares who gets the rose, who cares about what week it is when what he’s feeling is real? I imagine that this is a common problem for people who find themselves in the top two or three on this show. At this point, you are in love, you feel like you’re in a legitimate relationship, but you don’t actually know if you are or not. Greg doesn’t want to be with Katie on the Bachelorette anymore, he wants to be with her in real life, and they aren’t there yet.

Emily: In their argument on the previous night, I don’t think Greg said anything that was too out of line. But in the time since then, he has had at least 2 days to stew over this and overanalyze what it all means. I also want to stress that I think a lot of what he’s saying is coming from a place of grief and vulnerability and not yet being ready to process those feelings. Again, disclaimer: I do not know Greg, and I’m not in Greg’s head, and I could very well just be projecting my own feelings of grief onto another human being. But that’s also what I think he’s doing here. I think he’s projecting his despair about the loss of his father onto Katie, and he’s angry with her because somewhere in the back of his head, he expected this relationship to fix it. That’s not fair to Katie, of course. And that’s not a healthy way to start a relationship. And ultimately, I don’t think Greg was in the right emotional state to be on a show like this. But I don’t think any of this makes Greg a bad person. I think it makes him a vulnerable person who said really hurtful things to someone he cared about.

Kelli: Yes. And I think we’ve all said hurtful things when we’re hurt. It doesn’t make it okay, but nobody is perfect, and I don’t think Greg is a bad person at all based on this one exchange.

While it’s true that Katie could choose to break the rules and doesn’t, I also think it’s unfair of Greg to accuse her of not caring about him or their relationship and only caring about the logistics of the show. Katie seems like the type of person who doesn’t like to cause issues, and she’s probably just doing exactly what production is coaching her to do. She has definitely given Greg a lot of validation throughout the season, routinely checking in with him to make sure he’s okay, that he’s coping, that he isn’t going to leave. Based on the things she’s said all along the way, including what she says during this conversation, it seems like she really does want Greg to stay. She apologizes multiple times, asks him what he needs to hear from her in order to trust what exists between them, but it’s clear that Greg has already made up his mind. I don’t know if there’s anything she could say to him at this point that would change things, because he has spiraled so far that he fully believes things are unsalvageable.

Emily: I think this is a good time to mention that we’ve seen a lot of things online about Greg “gaslighting” Katie (even from Katie herself). Again, I can’t help but project my own trauma onto this as someone who has been in an abusive relationship and has been gaslit by a partner in the past. But now that you know that’s part of what I’m doing, listen up. We need to be careful about how we accuse people of abuse and how we use terms like this. I think, Kelli, you make a good point when you say that Greg has “spiraled” so far that he believes these things himself. It’s not that he’s twisting the story to make Katie feel a certain way. It’s that he’s twisted the story in his own mind and now he truly believes this is the way it is. If he were truly gaslighting Katie, he would be twisting the conversation to make her believe things that he knows not to be true, to make her feel “crazy” or that her feelings are not valid. I don’t see how that’s what’s happening here. Unless you think Greg is just a really good actor and has been acting all season. Some people have argued that Greg went to acting school so maybe he is “acting.” To that I say, girl, a lot of us have been to acting school. That doesn’t make us fake people. Calm down.

Kelli: I also want to mention that a lot people who are now calling Greg a “toxic abuser” are also claiming that he was in this the whole time for social media fame, to which I say: have y’all seen Greg’s social media? He barely posts anything. This is not the instagram account of a person who’s trying to become an influencer. If you want to see that, you can head over to *checks notes* basically every other person on this season. Which is totally fine, and whether it’s “wrong” to go on this show for career reasons is another conversation entirely, but I really don’t think that’s what Greg was here for either.

ANYWAY.

I have been broken up with by a person who spent the entire conversation telling me that I was the one who didn’t want to be in the relationship, despite me clearly stating multiple times that I didn’t want to break up. It’s not fun to have someone tell you about yourself, make assumptions about what you feel and then make decisions for you because “this is what you want, isn’t it?” On the other hand, I have also experienced debilitating anxiety about a relationship, to the point where I ask someone to reassure and validate me repeatedly and no matter how many times they say exactly what I think I want to hear them say, it’s never enough. I see myself very clearly on both sides of this argument, which is to say that I don’t think either person here is wrong or right. And I’m seeing a lot of people on the internet express a complete and utter lack of empathy on both sides, as if “sides” are a thing that even have to exist when we are talking about two people we have never met.

Emily: Yes, I think that’s key here. Kelli and I are not trying to take sides because, and I can’t stress this enough, WE DO NOT KNOW KATIE AND GREG. We’ve seen them on tv and we’ve seen intimate parts of their lives, but that still doesn’t mean we know them. We can’t be “Team Katie” or “Team Greg,” because these are not our friends. These are people we’ve seen on a heavily-edited TV show.

Kelli: Yes. And this is not to say that we haven’t been hard on contestants in the past, but there have been people on this show who have behaved abhorrently and have shown patterns of abusive behavior throughout their time on a season. I’m thinking of someone like Luke P. on Hannah Brown’s season of the show. There are times when a person is truly and obviously cruel in a way that can’t really be edited, and those are special cases. Again, the editors are choosing what to show us and what not to show us, but we haven’t seen Katie have any issues with Greg up until this point on the show, nor has he exhibited toxic behavior in the house or been a person causing trouble for anyone other than himself. Which all leads me to believe that this was not a person trying to manipulate and abuse and gaslight someone in a purposeful way.

Emily: People have also been coming for Connor B for defending Greg on social media. And to that I say, well, Connor B is Greg’s friend, so of course he’s going to defend his friend. And Connor knows Greg better than any of us do, so let’s not cancel him for trying to go to bat for his friend who’s being torn apart (unfairly, I think) on social media. Like, everyone just calm down.

I think emotions are high across Bachelor Nation because it’s hard not to see some of yourself and some of your own pain in what happened to Katie and Greg here. And that’s hard to watch. I literally had a nightmare after I watched this episode because it brought back a lot of difficult stuff for me. But at the end of the day, this didn’t happen to me, this happened to them. And I think we all need to take a step back and remember this is a show.

With all of that being said, I’m very curious to see how the After the Final Rose plays out next week.

Kelli: I am also really curious about this. What with a couple of things we’ve seen on social media, it definitely seems like the two of them have not resolved their issues. I’m honestly curious about whether Greg will show up for ATFR at all… but all I can hope is that he does, and that they have had the time and space to think about what they want to say to each other. I hope they can reconcile and be on good terms, because I think they both seem like genuinely decent people.

Emily: Before we close out this whole episode, though. More stuff does happen. I know. Come back to us.

First of all, Greg self-eliminates (10 points for Team Cat Lady… yay?)

Then Katie absolutely loses it. She’s storming off. She shouts, “I’m done.” She’s crying a whole lot (5 points). She locks herself in the bathroom.

Kelli: Kaitlyn shows up to Katie’s room and knocks on the door. Katie does not open up, but Kaitlyn tells her she just wanted to check and see if she’s okay. Katie is obviously not okay. When Kaitlyn asks what Katie is feeling, Katie says she wants to book her plane ticket home. After a bit of cajoling, she opens the door and Kaitlyn hugs her while she cries. I’m so glad Kaitlyn is here for this. Once again, Justine turned to me at this moment and said, “can you imagine if Chris was here?”

Emily: Can I imagine Chris Harrison sitting outside of Katie’s bathroom door and talking about her feelings? Hell no. We do not miss Chris at all.

Anyway, points time!